Radio-Canada threatens podcast app using its podcast feeds
“We are intellectual property counsel for CBC/Société Radio-Canada (CBC/SRC)”, started an French and English email sent to Podcast Addict, the most popular Android podcast app, which Podnews has obtained. The email was from a Montréal-based legal firm. It went on:
“We are writing to you because your application currently hosts hundreds of CBC/SRC podcasts, and this, without the consent or authorization of our client.
As you are surely aware, this is illegal. Indeed, unauthorized reproduction and distribution of our client’s podcasts is a violation of copyright under the laws of Canada, the United States, and other countries.”
“In the interest of resolving this matter without resort to DMCA takedowns and other legal proceedings, we ask that you agree in writing to removing all CBC/SRC content from your app and website, and that you do so by (date).“
Podcast Addict doesn’t host any podcasts, of course. In common with every other reputable podcast app, it supports the unwritten contract between podcast publishers and apps. It uses RSS feeds specifically intended for consumption in podcast apps - and links directly to the audio, without altering it in any way.
This is the way podcasting has always worked - a link to the original audio hosted by the publisher. As the lawyer is surely aware, this is not illegal at all.
Legal letters, like the one from this lawyer, aren’t unusual for podcast apps and directories to receive.
Earlier this year, the Italian company Licensync was sending out legal demands - but disappeared after a Podnews investigation.
A large commercial broadcaster in Australia sent a number of legal threats to podcast apps and directories in 2020, including Podnews, for linking to its podcasts. (We didn’t comply with its demand for removal, given the podcasts were openly published and we were linking to the publisher for the audio).
We were sent a three-page legal letter in Feb 2022 for linking to a diet podcast. “The only authorised host for this podcast is Apple Podcasts", the lawyers said, which must have come as news to Libsyn, which actually hosted it. In this case, we did comply, after three costly emails back and forth with the lawyer - by replacing our normal page with an embedded Apple Podcasts player. They were the only authorised host, after all.
The threatening nature of legal letters like these means many podcast app developers think they have to resort to paying for legal advice. Dealing with lawyers adds stress, hassle and cost for developers who are operating wholly within the law, and delivering what the publisher wants - more listeners “wherever you get your podcasts”.
Letters like these are bad for developers, and for the industry - especially when open RSS feeds are being specifically published for this use, and no copyright violations are taking place.
Is CBC really against open podcasting?
In January, CBC launched seven local podcasts “available now on CBC Listen or wherever you get your podcasts”. The broadcaster openly promotes its ranking in Apple’s charts. So, we were unsure why CBC would suddenly be concerned about being available in open RSS podcast apps.
Podnews, too, lists CBC shows, like the very good Crime Story (“new episodes of Crime Story are out every Monday - find us wherever you get your podcasts” says the trailer). So, we contacted CBC, which has been a past Podnews advertiser, to ask what was going on.
Radio-Canada is the French-speaking part of the organisation; CBC is the English-speaking part. Our contact at CBC forwarded our enquiry on to Radio-Canada, who told us:
First of all, we’d like to point out that CBC and Radio-Canada have adopted different strategies when it comes to broadcasting podcasts. Radio-Canada has opted for exclusive distribution of French content on its platforms, and closed its RSS feeds more than 3 years ago. Radio-Canada releases copyright only for distribution on its platforms, and takes the necessary measures to prevent its content from being downloaded and distributed on external platforms without authorization.
In the present case, we would like Radio-Canada French content to be removed from PodcastAddict, but CBC content to remain accessible on this platform, open and public. We sincerely regret that CBC/Radio-Canada’s legal council did not make this clear to the Podcast Addict team.
In short, the threatening legal letter was demanding CBC shows should be removed, but entirely without the knowledge of CBC, which wants its shows to remain available on open podcast platforms.
It’s only Radio-Canada which has closed its RSS feeds. Or…
Has Radio-Canada really closed its RSS feeds?
The Radio-Canada spokesperson told us:
“Radio-Canada … closed its RSS feeds more than 3 years ago … [and] releases copyright only for distribution on its platforms“
Except: no, this isn’t the case for many of its shows.
As one example, À la une - “a quick news roundup to kickstart your day” - is available with an open RSS feed, linking to Triton Digital’s open RSS feed. It’s listed on Apple Podcasts, and many other open RSS podcast apps.
Radio-Canada even has an Apple Podcasts channel.
À la une is one of a number of Radio-Canada titles which Radio-Canada publishes to Apple Podcasts, and is therefore available on many different podcast apps that use Apple Podcasts as an open directory.
Apple Podcasts is clear in its documentation that many third-party podcasting services use the Apple Podcasts catalog. (Even us!) Apple Podcasts offers the opportunity to opt out of distribution, but Radio-Canada has not used this feature. This is what it’s there for. (And, for the record, enabling that will mean your podcast disappears from Podnews’s directory within 30 days, or sooner if you notify us).
We followed-up with Radio-Canada, asking for clarification, and questioning whether Apple, Spotify and other apps should expect a similarly threatening legal letter from Radio-Canada’s legal counsel. The company didn’t respond.
We don’t know which shows the legal counsel was concerned about - because it never said. Was it À la une? Or was it different shows?
We checked the available Radio-Canada shows in Podcast Addict. They are all the open RSS feeds used by Apple Podcasts. There is nothing else owned by the brodcaster.
Legal threats like this must stop
So:
- a lawyer who claims he is acting on behalf of “CBC/Radio-Canada” is mis-stating who he is acting for - only Radio-Canada, in this case
- Radio-Canada claims it’s closed its RSS feeds, but has not done so for a number of its shows
- Radio-Canada has knowingly published some shows via Apple Podcasts, and has not used the features available to it to restrict further distribution
- the lawyer didn’t clarify which shows they were concerned with, so we don’t know which were the issue
- Podcast apps are using open RSS feeds only for the purpose that they are being published for - to link directly and unaltered to the audio
In the last financial year, CBC/Radio-Canada was given CAD $1.4bn by the Canadian taxpayer. Radio-Canada is, of course, perfectly within its rights to only use its proprietary OHdio platform as an exclusive place for its audio - though we would argue that taxpayers would prefer to get content they pay for on a platform they currently use. (Possibly connected, possibly not, RAIN reported in 2018 that French Canadians consume fewer podcasts than English speakers in the country.)
However, paying an external legal counsel to send threatening legal requests like these is clearly bad value for money for Canadian taxpayers. In particular, this legal threat was overly broad, nonspecific, and showed a fundamental misunderstanding of how podcasting works - especially about Podcast Addict, a long-standing and reputable podcast app.
The DMCA procedure is clear: publishers or their representatives should send specific links to content that they feel infringes their copyright, not a vague “every piece of content from our client”, especially when they’re not even sure who their client is. Here’s our DMCA procedure - it’s no different to any other, excepting that we might publish any DMCA request we get. (Hey, free content!)
We asked Radio-Canada whether it supports open RSS podcasting.
It didn’t say.
