A Conversation about Podcast Movement Virtual With Megaphone CEO Brendan Monaghan and Podcast Movement President Dan Franks

A transcript reproduced with permission from a Megaphone webinar on August 6 2020

Brendan Monaghan: … what’s happening with Podcast Movement and how this is an evolution of the space more broadly. So, Dan, great to see you.

Dan Franks: Yeah, Brendan, thanks for chatting with me.

Brendan Monaghan: You’ve made a decision to go virtual for October. Take a few minutes, talk about the plans there.

Dan Franks: So right now, the event would have more or less been… about to be kicked off. So early August is when it was originally scheduled. It’s interesting because we booked these venues two or three years in advance. So as, what would it have been, 2019 event was approaching, we were already halfway through preparing for the 2020 event. So it’s more than just a few months worth of work that we decided… that goes into it before it gets canceled or postponed. So that’s one of the reasons why we didn’t just immediately say, “Okay, the event’s canceled. We’re not going to do it.” We really thought that, “Hey, maybe if we kicked this off to October, it’s something that we’d be able to do and still have some form of the event,” knowing that there would be social distancing and safety measures and stuff we would have to put in place.

Dan Franks: So we spent several months earlier this summer going through all those protocols and procedures and things that we would do with the in-person event to make sure it was as safe as possible if we were to able to gather people together.

Dan Franks: But ultimately, things in Texas and other parts of the country were getting worse, not better. And it just made the most sense to make the decision so that people weren’t booking plane flights or making travel plans for an event that we knew likely was not going to happen. And then even if it did happen at that point, we knew it was going to be so different in terms of spacing and networking and all the things that are important to the event, we knew it’d be so different, that’s when we ultimately made a call to just to cancel the event altogether.

Dan Franks: So that’s kind of, I guess, to lay the foundation for some of the things we’re going to talk about today. That’s one of the big things, is we are not just turning Podcast Movement 2020, hey, it’s virtual this year instead of in-person. We have been to enough virtual events. We know that they’re not replacements for in-person events. They’re cool and you can make them valuable and sometimes even more accessible to a lot of people, but it’s not a replacement event. So we’re not saying that Podcast Movement 2020 has gone virtual, we’re saying that Podcast Movement 2020 is canceled, and during that same time period in late October, when we were going to do the in-person event, we’re doing our virtual event instead. So that’s the big distinction.

Dan Franks: As we go through the programming of the events and the different activities of the event, we’re really kind of starting over and starting from the ground up to try to create a virtual event that’s going to be cool and engaging and exciting and educational for people. And not just trying to kind of fit a round peg into a square hole and do our existing event as a virtual one. So, yeah, that’s the big differentiating factor and it’s kind of allowed us the freedom saying, “If you’ve registered for the in-person event, we’ll give you a refund. If you still want me to come to the virtual event, we’ll let you in there.” But we’re not just trying to… It gives us the freedom to not try to do something that we, maybe, weren’t comfortable doing. We’re excited about the virtual event. We’re excited about the virtual platform. And the team is, yeah, all hands on deck putting that together.

Brendan Monaghan: So to be clear though, as you said earlier, you roll people’s tickets forward and then are also giving them this virtual event, if they so chose that they didn’t want the refund?

Dan Franks: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, anyone who registered for the event, any sponsors or exhibitors for the event, we told them flat out that it’s canceled. If you want to back off, we’ll give you a refund or… For us, like other businesses, it’s crunch right now, that’s our primary revenue factor. So like, if you want to keep working with us and if you’re financially able to, and attendees, exhibitors, sponsors, if you’ll roll over whatever it was you did for 2020 into 2021 for an in-person event, hopefully, back in person again in Nashville next summer, then not only are we going to give you the exact dollar for dollar value that you spend on us in 2020, but we’re doing this virtual event and you can get access to that for free.

Dan Franks: So, yeah, exhibitors and sponsors, we’re giving them free exposure within the event in levels that otherwise would be paid if it was a new thing. So doing our best, help ourselves out, quite honestly, from a business perspective, to not be sending a bunch of refunds out, except if people wanted it. Again, we’re not trying to keep anything hostage. But, yeah. Trying to do the right thing while also trying to do what we can for the business.

Dan Franks: Like I said, as we started putting this virtual event together, we’re really excited. There’s a lot of things that we can do on the virtual platform with knocking down the barriers of people traveling to events or taking time off work for events, fun things we can do that make us excited about that, seeing it as an opportunity to do something new versus just kind of a fallback plan.

Brendan Monaghan: Yeah, no, that’s great. I mean, one thing I’m really interested in as virtual becomes more of an experience that we’re, I guess, coalescing around just as a country and in the world, is how you see certain parts of… Podcast Movement is one thing that I always get a ton of value out of. It’s just the opportunity to see and engage with people. And not to go raise the term networking, but how people are going to… how do you see that, or any other part of the events that… the event that is normally very valuable in person, how do see that changing in a virtual environment. What does that look like?

Dan Franks: Yeah. With Podcast Movement, especially growing as it did from just a small gathering of people kind of all knew each other, and then every year growing slowly. It hasn’t been that one year where it just like quadrupled in size and all of a sudden there’s a bunch of new people. The way it’s kind of grown slowly is it really has built this community of people, and a lot of them have gotten to know each other and then every year they come back and they see similar faces, some new faces come in. That slow growth has really, not just saying, “Okay, we’re going to dump a bunch of podcasting people in one space and let them,” like you said, “network.” It’s not like that, because it has been that slow growth. It really is rekindling old relationships, reconnecting with people that you haven’t seen for a year.

Dan Franks: That’s really hard, obviously, to recreate in the virtual environment. It’s just not something that we can do the exact same way. So we try to look at it and say… And this just kind of goes for a number of the different elements that we’re building out in this virtual event is, okay, it’s great how it is at the in-person event, but what are some of the negatives that the in-person event brings? Just again, format limitations with a bunch of people being in one space. And how can the virtual event address those and, again, kind of capitalize on the benefits versus just trying to settle for doing something virtual?

Dan Franks: The biggest one that we’ve seen is, yes, at the in-person events, if you know people already, then you’re going to show up at the event, seek them out, say hi and reconnect with people. You might be putting a face to a name of somebody you’ve been trading emails with, or maybe even done Zoom calls with for a while.

Dan Franks: The in-person event, that’s what happens. But the hardest thing to do is just completely connect with completely new people who you have no idea they exist, or you have no idea they’re there. You don’t know you’re supposed to be looking for them. So sure, there’s parties and stuff where there can be chance encounters, but that finding somebody that you have no idea you should be connecting with, because you don’t know who they are or that they’re there.

Dan Franks: That’s the kind of thing that’s really difficult in person. So the platform we selected for the virtual event, it uses AIs, super overused term, but it really does use artificial intelligence and collecting information about people as they register for the events and collecting extended amounts of information about the exhibitors and the sponsors and the speakers. So that through this platform, it can make recommendations for, okay, here’s a bunch of people you probably don’t know, but they’re at this event. And because they’re at the event, they’re available for one-on-one video meetings or just send them a instant message within the platform, or send them an email or whatever.

Dan Franks: So there’s more of a curated networking experience that we’re able to do. You know, even at the in-person events, if we were to use a tool like this, you get 20 to 50% of the attendees actually using the mobile app or whatever it is that we’re making available. If it’s in-person event, everyone that’s participating with the event is using this app. So having that 100% buy-in really allows us to kind of force people into that mold of this matchmaking type software, and it allows people to shut themselves off if they don’t want to get solicited or they don’t want to get connected with. But everyone else sits there and saying, “Yeah. Okay, virtual platform. I do want to take advantage of this opportunity to make new connections and meet people I maybe otherwise wouldn’t have had the chance to meet.”

Dan Franks: So to me, as far as networking goes, that’s a strength we could really kind of lean on with this virtual platform, is taking advantage of those matchmaking opportunities and filtering capability. So, okay. Here’s the thousands of attendees here and having a pretty robust filtering system to dropdown and saying, I’m looking for this type of podcast or this type of person selling ads, or this kind of person buying ads or whatever it is in the ecosystem, it really allows attendees to start chipping away at that list of thousands of thousands of names and really find people that will be valuable connections for them in the long run, not just over the weeks of the event.

Brendan Monaghan: I started attending in the second year there and that was for work there and I’ve seen the just massive growth of the event and different types of folks that show up. I mean, in my space, in terms of working with some of the larger enterprise partners, it is a must attend event. But I’m curious of what you’ve seen in terms of the trend, because it’s, to me, I always observe it’s a unique mix, right? One hand, you’ve got some of the biggest of the big in the space, the Spotifys, iHearts, the Westwood Ones.

Brendan Monaghan: And then you’ve also got passionate individual podcasters that are there and tend to get a lot out of it is. That’s my version. So I guess my question to you is, how is that evolution taking place? Are you seeing a greater interest level, percentage-wise, or what in terms of attendance from smaller individuals, or are you seeing a lot of enterprise participation? Is it kind of the same as it’s been, but just curious what you’re seeing in terms of trends about attendance and the types of people that are attending.

Dan Franks: Yeah, you’re right. It’s a very interesting mix. And I don’t think if we were just starting from scratch today, it’s something that we would be able to bring together. It’s something that, because we started in 2014, when the industry was just smaller, there was less moving pieces, less of those super big brands and companies in there. So because it started small that had a little bit of everyone there, that each one of those little pockets of different people in different roles in the podcast community, each one of those pockets started growing. Each one is almost its own little ecosystem within the bigger ecosystem.

Dan Franks: So yeah, like you said, it’s a really interesting mix. And one of my favorite pieces of feedback is always when I talk to someone who’s like a big executive or a big VP at one of the giant networks or media companies, and they sat in a session and they were sitting next to somebody who has a podcast about gardening or bird calling or something like that, and they have a conversation. And then they both walk away from it with just a different perspective, because maybe that small person that had a hobbyist podcast about something they just love, and it’s a passion project, they see these big bad networks and they see them as the enemy, not necessarily just a different player in the same space.

Dan Franks: Likewise, those people from the big networks or big companies have that conversation with somebody who’s a true practitioner in the same industry that they’re doing something different in, but because it’s all one ecosystem, that feedback we get, just those anecdotal stories we hear are really cool because I think those are valuable interactions for everyone and ones that you don’t normally have events that are more focused on just one or the other.

Dan Franks: But yeah, honestly, it’s been quite a… Especially the last few years, the growth has been pretty even. So the first few years, it was very much independent podcasters, hobbyists, people that were unaffiliated with networks or brands or anything like that, kind of true passionate creators. And then since then, like the next year, which was the first year you were there, that’s when we started seeing more public radio coming in. There’s more bigger brands, bigger your networks coming in, because some of those networks weren’t even involved with podcasting the year before. That was that first year, Serial was a hit and all those things that people kind of point to as different inflection points.

Dan Franks: So those, they all started coming in and then it was the next year in 2016, when we started seeing more radio people coming in and then that side kind of grew up. So yeah, we definitely see a big spread of different people. And it’s truly, at this point, it’s kind of all growing in unison with one another.

Brendan Monaghan: Yeah. I always tell people, I can get more meetings done in the, quote, three days there than I can in a month and going to New York city or wherever, with a high concentration of partners and potential clients are. It’s just, it’s been really productive for me just in terms of the amount of people you get to see in one event, because I just know how many people attend, at least in the circle where I operate in.

Brendan Monaghan: Along those lines, what would you say is the biggest change you’ve seen from when you started this? I think, you can correct me if I’m wrong, I have the impression, at least it wasn’t quite a full time gig for you. It was something that you were doing on the side. Obviously, I think that’s really evolved for you personally. But also, just at a corporate level, what would you say has changed the most in your eyes and what you’ve seen for Podcast Movement?

Dan Franks: Yeah. I don’t know if red tape is like an official term, but yeah. You know, it’s because the things have grown and because more, I’ll just call them traditional media brands, or just bigger brands in general have become involved and there’s been consolidation and all of that.

Dan Franks: Definitely, the biggest change is just when we used to have one point of contact for an entire company, now it’s the point of contact for marketing, the point of contact for sales, and the point of contact for content that you’ve got communications and PR that kind of sits over all of it. So that’s definitely the biggest change from my perspective, in terms of operating the event and operating the business. It’s just the number of people involved has increased exponentially, it feels like.

Dan Franks: So, yeah. So that’s the biggest piece, as far as that goes. I mean, obviously, the interest level, and I think the number of people, because we work so much with the creators. So the event brings everybody together, but throughout the year, a lot of the people we talk with and we work with and are part of our community throughout the year in between events, it is that creator community, and that’s the one that’s just blown up so much.

Dan Franks: It used to be, in 2014, so six or seven years ago when we were first getting it off the ground, a lot of the creators were pretty sophisticated. Like there was a few how-to websites out there and everybody was learning from those how-to websites. So everyone had kind of the same foundation, the same knowledge level of the RSS feeds and how the hosting, and how everything worked, whereas is now, because there are certain tools and stuff that have made that barrier of entry so much lower, and better microphones now. We have so many more USB microphones than we used to.

Dan Franks: So all of these different moving pieces that go into the creation of the podcasts has become so much easier that we’ve seen not only the explosion of creators coming into the space and coming into our sphere, but also kind of at that level of understanding of the moving pieces going down a little bit, which isn’t a bad thing because like one of the things that I think is awesome is that it’s even easier than ever before for anyone that has something to say or has an idea to put it out there, and if it works, then kind of the survival of the fittest, and if it works and other people like it, then it’ll raise up. And those people that maybe have those great ideas, but didn’t have that knowledge or didn’t have the ability to do all that research and gain that understanding of the technical side, before, they couldn’t ever get that good idea out there.

Dan Franks: So it’s definitely not a bad thing for me that some of the new tools and techniques are out there, but that’s a huge change we’ve seen from the creator side.

Brendan Monaghan: Interesting. So zooming out a little bit, you obviously have been heavily involved in the podcasting space for some time now. What is it that you’re seeing in terms of trends in the space, just in more broadly for someone who are interested in your perspective on the industry because you’ve talked to so many people? And again, ranging from the individual hobbyist all the way to the sort of biggest publishers out there. Anything in particular that’s jumping out to you that happens to be top of mind these days for big or small publishers alike?

Dan Franks: Yeah. I mean, from our perspective, like obviously the consolidation of the space and companies that used to kind of do the same thing independently are now doing the same thing together. So those types of moving pieces really affect us, or at least, we feel the effects of it.

Dan Franks: So like, just as an example, like if we have two sponsors and then one acquires the other or they merge or whatever that looks like, then we now have one sponsor and it’s like…

Dan Franks: So like from our perspective, those are the kinds of things we look at. It’s like, okay, how is this going to work? Is this like, are they still operating independently? Do we talk to them? And then again, like there’s so many different levels of contacts and stuff. Like, do we still talk to these two different people, even though they’re under the same umbrella? So that consolidation has constantly been happening lately. It kind of creates some issues for us there, and not in a bad way, but just like moving pieces.

Dan Franks: So yeah, definitely the consolidation is big. And I mentioned the tech getting better or more conducive to podcasters in terms of microphones that are easier to use or easier to plug and play in the computer versus having to get a [inaudible 00:19:31] board and XLR cables and all of that. So that’s been a big thing that I see and continue to see.

Dan Franks: We just got off the phone call today with a big microphone manufacturer that’s got… They’ve said, “Okay, we have this like super high end, super professional microphone. We’ve been shocked by how many podcasters have used it. Like, we don’t promote it to podcasters. We don’t, anything, but podcasters have started to use it. And the sales of that have gone so high, but it’s still a little expensive, because it’s not really geared towards them. It just kind of happened organically.”

Dan Franks: So now they’ve got a whole branch of their R&D team for crafting products specifically for podcasters. To me, like that kind of thing is super cool because, we talk about these lower barrier of entry technologies and stuff. And oftentimes, that comes with people talking into their laptop as their microphone, or doing interviews where they’re talking to the laptop and there’s no earbuds and those kinds of things that can set them so far back from the creation standpoint, because the quality, even if the content is good, the quality is going to be so bad.

Dan Franks: So having now these more affordable microphones that are still really good … it’s super exciting to see some of those trends. And a lot of them are based around content and content creation.

Brendan Monaghan: Yeah. That begs another question which is a big part of what you plan for Podcast Movement is a bunch of tracks and different categories. What do you see as the areas that you’re getting the most questions around, that people are just like, “Man, you got to do more about this,” whether it’s monetization or audience development, or… What are the areas that you’re just seeing a lot of demand for that podcasters across the board just seem to be either struggling with, or want to learn more about? Where is the demand creeping up for you in terms of the education of those of us who attend and want to learn more?

Dan Franks: Surprisingly, or maybe it’s not a surprise, but foreign language, non-English speaking podcasts and education sessions, and international type sessions that appeal to just different cultures that have different either different rules around what they can publish, governmental rules or asset they can’t use, or again like education and languages other than English.

Dan Franks: So like, that’s something that we’re working on and we, a few months ago, launched, and we haven’t even really promoted that much, it’s called PodMov Español. It’s a weekly newsletter in Spanish. And it’s just kind of a news recap, but it’s in Spanish and we’ve done like such little promotion because we wanted to make sure we could do it and could sustain it before promoting it. I mean, it’s gotten like thousands of subscribers, just more or less like no word of mouth than people kind of tagging each other and stuff.

Dan Franks: It’s just crazy to us. Like we had an idea and just kind of floated it out there and it’s taken off so much. But then through that, then we heard people that find their way back to our education and stuff, and it’s all English. We haven’t done a whole lot in any other languages.

Dan Franks: So that’s kind of opening our minds and saying, “Wow, there’s like a really big community out there. And there’s not a whole lot for them.” But we’re super excited. Mija Podcast, if anyone knows that one, from Studio Ochenta, there, they’ve done the same podcast in like three or four different languages, fully independently produced. Lory Martinez is the name of the host her, but she speaks multiple languages and she does the same podcast for every language.

Dan Franks: So we’re starting to see stuff like that out there that there’s not a big brand behind it, but there’s a super talented, creative, driving force behind it. That podcast has taken off in multiple completely compartmentalized verticals because of how good it is. So like we see stuff like that and that gets us excited to do more stuff in the foreign language and international space.

Dan Franks: So that’s the biggest thing that just immediately comes to mind. Now, obviously, everyone that starts a podcast… I don’t want to say everyone, but a lot of people want to figure out how to make money with it. So when you talk about like the different evolutions and they’re just coming into the space, lots of tools out there to help podcasters monetize, whether it’s selling kind of programmatic ads into their shows, automatically kind of hands off, or whether it’s more of the crowd-funded model, the super pin model, which really is one of my favorites, because if you do good content and create a good fan base, and it doesn’t have to be big for those people to want to lift you up and support you. So we’re seeing some more tools out there that can make that more accessible and easier to get started.

Dan Franks: Yeah. So monetization is always a big thing. And then obviously now, as we talk about more creators coming into the space and more content getting cranked out there, just growth is obviously what everyone’s going for, whether or not… Most people want to make money, but everyone wants their show to get bigger and to get more listeners. So, trying to provide education, that’s not the same regurgitated information. Slow and steady wins the race. Just keep cranking it out. Like, yes, those are important for especially new creators who don’t have a brand or an image to build it on top of. But there’s tools and techniques and different things people can be doing on social media or in terms of swamping promos with other small podcasts or stuff like that, that we try to… it’s not new, but it’s stuff that we try to kind of keep on the forefront for all those people that are churning and new people come in and ask the same questions. So a lot of the times, it’s just those tried and true lessons that we try to keep top of mind.

Brendan Monaghan: Yeah. I haven’t talk to people we work with about the idea that the business side of podcasting that it comes down to monetization and audience development, and sometimes monetization is actually easier to come by than audience in terms of growth and those tactics, and take a lot of effort and a lot of hard work to do it. So that’s interesting. That makes a ton of sense. The international piece is interesting, too.

Brendan Monaghan: Last piece, and then I want to turn to next year real quickly before we wrap up. But along those lines of international interest, have you given much thought to doing something more in Europe or Spanish-speaking countries, or something just to cater to that audience you’re seeing more interest from?

Dan Franks: Yeah. Since the beginning in 2014, we’ve had different groups and different people and different markets that’s said, “Hey, that’s really cool. Can you help us do something like this? Or could you kind of bring the whole package over there?” It’s something we didn’t want to put the cart before the horse on. Like we wanted to build, “Here. This is what we do. This is where we were.” So that was, we hadn’t up until recently talked about that.

Dan Franks: The other thing we didn’t want to do is like, we didn’t want to be so arrogant to think like, “Hey, this worked here or we did it here. Like we’re just going to take it to any country, point a country on the map and we’ll be able to recreate it there.” And that was something like we knew for sure wasn’t the case, but we’ve seen people try to do that before and it hasn’t worked. So we knew if we wanted to do it, it would have to be through a partnership and have local people very heavily involved. It’s not something that we, again, are just so arrogant to think that we can just do it from afar and flick a light switch on, and then all of a sudden, it’s this big booming event over there.

Dan Franks: So, yeah. Before the pandemic and before all this hit, we had some conversations going and obviously those have kind of stopped. But, yeah, I mean, with just the international growth of podcasting, any value and anything like that that we’d be able to bring to some of these other locations, we’re going to try to do that just because we know that even if we create this awesome thing that people want to come to here, either it’s money or not because of travel restrictions or for a variety of reasons, like people won’t be able to participate ever.

Dan Franks: So trying to figure out, okay, if they can’t come here, what can we do for them? That’s a big thing. So that’s something that certainly is on the horizon, but maybe not as close as it once was.

Brendan Monaghan: It was. Yeah. So in the last couple minutes here, talk about next year. Obviously, this year threw a major curve ball that kind of folks in the event space and other industries as well. Curious to know what you’re thinking about and what you’re excited about, what you might do differently.

Brendan Monaghan: You know, Nashville’s, a year from now. There’s going to be… the world’s going to be a largely different place than it’s been. I’m curious to know what you’re most excited about, besides of course the obvious, which is all of us getting together, being able to see people in person, hopefully, but more broadly as a leader of major event here in this space. What are you excited about? What are you looking forward doing?

Dan Franks: Well, I mean, I’m excited about, I think, Nashville has almost become quite a bit of a destination city, whereas a few years ago, even that didn’t seem like it, but it’s such a place that people are excited to go to. So not hating on my own city, not hating on Dallas, but Dallas is good because of its practical travel prices and it’s centrally located so it’s easy to get to. And once you get here, like there’s cool things to do, but it’s not a draw in and of itself.

Dan Franks: Whereas Nashville, when we first announced that next August, the in-person event’s in Nashville, we already got so much positive feedback from people, either saying, “I’ve always wanted to go to Nashville” or have family that’s moved to Nashville because the city has grown so much.

Dan Franks: So being a destination city in itself, that’s good for us from an event perspective. And every few years, we try to do something like that. So that’s exciting. It’s just the location itself is going to be a super fun one. We’re excited about it. It’s at the Gaylord there, which is, anyone who’ve seen any of the Gaylord properties, they’re just fantastic venues. A lot of times, the Gaylords are like pretty far from the metro areas. The one in Nashville is pretty close. So it’s close to all the sights and sounds that people want to see when they go to Nashville while still being a super great complex.

Dan Franks: So, that’s the other thing, is that for us event organizers, there are certain cities that we would love to go to and love to host events in, but because the facilities aren’t there… Take for instance like Seattle. Seattle, would be super fun to go to, a super cool city, but none of the hotels there can fit us, and we could fit into a convention center, and be like in the corner of the convention center and just be a small ant over there.

Dan Franks: So a lot of times, there’s places, as an event company, we want to go to that it just doesn’t fit. So to be able to find a city that we want to go to like Nashville with a facility that’s world-class and will be perfect for us, that, as an event organizer, that’s what gets me most excited.

Dan Franks: But obviously the most obvious thing is that getting people back together again. Like so many people emailed us and just said like, “Super disappointed that we can’t get together. Fully understand, but it’s going to suck not seeing each other this year.” And I think that’s a lot of the sentiment because you can do the best education and you get the best speakers and all of that together, but ultimately, you’ve got the people that are coming want to see each other and be around each other for people to want to come back and for them to feel like they got value and enjoy their time and want to come back in future years.

Dan Franks: So the ability to get that all up and going again is what we’re hoping to do. Who knows what it looks like. We’re staying on our toes. We’ll be staying on our toes in terms of what different measures will need to be in place. It’s exactly one year from now, we should all be in Nashville together. So let’s all hope for the best there.

Brendan Monaghan: Well, that’s great. I look forward to it. I look forward to it every year. I appreciate the time today, for the candor, and just the insights about the event and what’s happening. Like I said, it’s pretty much a can’t-miss thing for most of the folks I talked to in the industry. So it’s been fun talking to you, it’s fun seeing you, and look forward to seeing you, hopefully sooner than next year, but at the very least, in Nashville next year, where we’ll all be back together.

Dan Franks: Yeah. I’m looking forward to it. And if anyone wants to learn more, we just relaunched the virtual… the event website for the virtual event. So you just go to virtual.podcastmovement.com and you can see the dates, the schedule. Kind of an interesting schedule. It’s spread over two weeks, but it’s four event days. So we’re really trying to make it digestible for people who want to participate in all of the sessions, but also don’t want to take a week off work to do it. So we’re really trying to kind of separate it out.

Dan Franks: So attended a lot of virtual events and lots of all of those things to make sure that we’re doing what we think is the best format for this. So trying some different things, but definitely excited to see everyone there virtually, and then, like you said, next summer in Nashville.

Brendan Monaghan: Awesome. Well hey, with that, I’m going to write this up. Appreciate your time. Thanks for making the time here. I know you’ve got a new baby. So thanks for carving out some time to talk with us and all the folks who joined, so appreciate your time.

Dan Franks: Perfect. Thanks, Brendan.